Welcome to this edition of the Click and Pledge's Fundraising Command Center Podcast, where we talk the why, the what, and the how in the Click and Pledge's ecosystem.
Speaker 2:And today, we are diving deep into the Why? Series. We're going be tackling something we feel is mission critical, a concept we're calling the Curiosity Imperative.
Speaker 1:Okay, the Curiosity Imperative. What are we really talking about here?
Speaker 2:We're talking about the silent killer of generosity friction. And why the whole focus in fundraising tech needs a pretty radical shift.
Speaker 1:A shift away from the superficial, right, because for so long it feels like the nonprofit world has been completely fixated on what we'd call cosmetic design.
Speaker 2:Exactly. The fonts, the brand colors, the layout.
Speaker 1:All that stuff. And we're arguing that's largely a distraction. The real power is in behavioral design.
Speaker 2:It is. So our mission today for you is to really show why complexity just burns mental energy and how that energy drain is costing you donations.
Speaker 1:And if you can internalize that one idea, you start to see that simplicity isn't lazy, it's actually the highest form of respect you can pay to a donor's time.
Speaker 2:And their generosity. And for those of you who've been following along, this all ties directly back into things we've discussed before: the manifold of giving, the free energy principle.
Speaker 1:Evolutionary fundraising, yeah. Today we're sort of putting a behavioral lens on all of that theory.
Speaker 2:That's the goal.
Speaker 1:So let's start with a really compelling framework you brought up. It's that famous advice from Ted Lasso, be curious, not judgmental. Now that sounds great for, you know, personal relationships, but a digital donation form. How does that translate into ones and zeros?
Speaker 2:It translates into the fundamental psychology of the whole interaction. See, when a donor gets to your site, they're acting on an emotional impulse. They want to help.
Speaker 1:And that impulse is fragile.
Speaker 2:Very fragile. And what we observe is that most of these multi step donation forms, they're inherently judgmental. They assert a hierarchy of needs right from the start.
Speaker 1:A hierarchy of needs, meaning the organization's need for data is more important than the donor's impulse to give.
Speaker 2:Precisely. By forcing a donor who is ready to give right now to navigate three, five, even 10 pages of fields, the organization is implicitly saying, hold on, before we take your gift, you have to conform to our internal data structure.
Speaker 1:You must fit into our box.
Speaker 2:That's it. That is the definition of a judgmental system.
Speaker 1:Can you break that down? Like, what does a judgmental form actually ask for?
Speaker 2:The judgmental form is bureaucratic. It's organization centric. It asks questions that are you know maybe useful for a CRM report later but they are completely irrelevant to the act of giving in that exact moment.
Speaker 1:Things like, where did you hear about us?
Speaker 2:Exactly. Or is this dedicated to a specific fund that only three people in your organization even know exists? Or are you an alumnus?
Speaker 1:These are all friction points disguised as good data hygiene. They just get in the way of the impulse.
Speaker 2:They kill the impulse. Now contrast that with what we call the curious form. This form asks one thing and one thing only of the donor.
Speaker 1:How can I help you right now?
Speaker 2:That's it. It accepts the generous impulse first. It processes the transaction, and it adapts entirely to the donor's state of mind. It minimizes every single demand.
Speaker 1:And what's so fascinating about this is that this principle of adaptation, it feels so radical in the nonprofit space but it's the absolute standard everywhere else.
Speaker 2:Everywhere else. I mean if you connect this to the bigger picture, the most successful tech companies in history have built their entire empires on this one principle, the radical removal of friction.
Speaker 1:Okay, let's unpack those titans. You think about Amazon. Their whole empire wasn't built on having the prettiest website.
Speaker 2:No, not at all. Their genius was recognizing that every single click after the decision to buy was a moment of weakness, a place where buyer could just back out.
Speaker 1:So they invented one click shopping.
Speaker 2:They did. They removed the entire decision chain. No complex cart review, no endless address verification screens. The goal was to make the decision to buy identical to the act of buying.
Speaker 1:And then there's Google. I mean, the Google homepage is probably the most valuable digital real estate on the planet. And what's there?
Speaker 2:A single minimalist search box. It's the ultimate statement of curiosity, isn't it? It doesn't ask you to categorize your question first or, you know, tell it why you're searching.
Speaker 1:It just asks, what is your question?
Speaker 2:And then it does all the work of adapting the results to you. And now the modern standard with AI like Gemini, Claude, ChatGPT, it's even more extreme.
Speaker 1:It's just one input field.
Speaker 2:The user's input is the entire interface. They've removed every single barrier. We, as consumers, have been trained by the most powerful companies in the world to expect this level of frictionless immediacy.
Speaker 1:And yet, in our world, in the nonprofit sector, we're still having meetings about whether a multi step form is a good idea. It's just a fundamental misalignment.
Speaker 2:It is. Friction, in this era, is the absolute enemy of the decision to give.
Speaker 1:And if we really want to understand why friction is so destructive, we have to look past just, you know, the interface design and go right into the donor's brain.
Speaker 2:Exactly. It's a matter of basic neuroscience. Why does every extra field, every click matter so much? It's because every single one adds what scientists call cognitive load.
Speaker 1:Okay, hold on. Let's slow down here because this is really important. We're talking about actual brain chemistry. How does a next button trigger a negative neurological response?
Speaker 2:It forces a critical switch in the brain. The donor arrives with an emotional desire to give. That impulse is driven by the limbic system.
Speaker 1:The deep emotional core of the brain, the part responsible for empathy, connection.
Speaker 2:The source of generosity itself. It's powerful and it's fast. But the moment you present that donor with a bureaucratic multi step form.
Speaker 1:You're forcing them to make rational decisions.
Speaker 2:You're forcing them out of the limbic system and into the frontal cortex, the rational analytical decision making part of the brain.
Speaker 1:So you've literally pulled them out of an emotional impulse and dropped them into a mechanical bureaucratic task.
Speaker 2:You've asked them to perform work for you. And that work is this long decision chain. Click, that's a decision. Type something in, another decision. Hit the next page button, yet another decision.
Speaker 2:It creates mental fatigue.
Speaker 1:Of giving.
Speaker 2:Exactly. And this is where the free energy principle comes in, something we've touched on before. The brain is at its core an inference machine. It's constantly trying to minimize free energy.
Speaker 1:Which is just a scientific way of saying it's trying to minimize surprise, effort, and uncertainty.
Speaker 2:Right. It's a survival mechanism designed to conserve metabolic resources. It's why we form habits.
Speaker 1:So if I land on a donation form and it's confusing, it's messy, maybe it has that conditional logic where clicking one box makes another one appear. What is my brain registering?
Speaker 2:Your brain is registering high entropy. Entropy is just disorder, uncertainty. It perceives a messy form as high effort work and it will naturally resist it.
Speaker 1:It sees it as a metabolic cost.
Speaker 2:That's a perfect way to put it. Yeah. You're asking them to burn their own mental fuel they were ready to convert into a generous act for you. Instead, you're making them spend it on navigating your form.
Speaker 1:That's powerful. We are literally burning the donor's metabolic energy with unnecessary clicks.
Speaker 2:Think about it. When we force them to process conditional logic, okay, I click this little checkbox, do I have to remember to fill out those two new fields that just appeared? We're forcing their brain to process uncertainty.
Speaker 1:Whereas a low entropy solution?
Speaker 2:A low entropy solution like a single simple interface connected directly to a digital wallet that minimizes free energy. It aligns perfectly with the brain's natural deep seated desire for efficiency and flow.
Speaker 1:And this efficiency, it isn't just a nice to have anymore, it's the expectation.
Speaker 2:It is. A donor isn't thinking, I wonder what their CRM requires. We hear nonprofits talk about their internal data needs, but you cannot force a donor to adapt to your org chart. You just can't.
Speaker 1:You have to adapt your technology to their neurological need for simplicity.
Speaker 2:You have to.
Speaker 1:So let's talk about how this all plays out in the real world with real design choices because we see a massive strategic mistake happen over and over again. We call it the Keeping up with the Joneses fallacy.
Speaker 2:Oh this one is unfortunately so common. A non profit will come to us and say we need our form to look exactly like Competitor X's form.
Speaker 1:And when you go look at Competitor X
Speaker 2:Their form is a mess. It's complex, it's outdated, and we know it has terrible abandonment rates, But they're just copying bad behavior because they think that's what it means to be competitive.
Speaker 1:And this all points back to that obsession with cosmetics over actual behavior. We've all been in those meetings, right? Debating for hours.
Speaker 2:Should the background be blue or pink?
Speaker 1:Or what is the most emotionally friendly font we can use?
Speaker 2:The conversations are all about aesthetic flair. And meanwhile, they're completely ignoring the critical behavioral metrics. They are not asking the right questions.
Speaker 1:They're not asking how many milliseconds does it take to complete this transaction?
Speaker 2:Or what is the actual physical and mental work required for someone to hit that final submit button? That's the question that matters.
Speaker 1:That measurement milliseconds? That's the real currency of the digital age.
Speaker 2:It is. And this cosmetic focus, it keeps a really damaging myth alive in our world. The cart abandonment myth.
Speaker 1:Right. You hear consultants citing these scary retail statistics from Amazon or Target about abandonment rates.
Speaker 2:And they apply them inappropriately to the act of charity.
Speaker 1:Why do you say that myth is so flawed in our context?
Speaker 2:Because the entire idea of cart abandonment assumes there's a cart. It assumes the donor has to spend time putting things in a cart, reviewing the cart, and then going to a multi step checkout.
Speaker 1:But if the form is truly adapted to the donor
Speaker 2:If it's one click away from their digital wallet and an immediate confirmation, there is no cart to abandon.
Speaker 1:So the goal isn't to get better at recovering abandoned carts, the goal is to eliminate the cart entirely?
Speaker 2:Exactly. When you eliminate the friction, the mandatory steps, the extra clicks abandonment becomes statistically impossible. You've made the generous decision instantaneous.
Speaker 1:This all brings us to I think the core symptom of this entire problem. It's in the question we hear most often from non profits, or maybe more accurately the question we never hear.
Speaker 2:That's right. In all our years doing this, we have never once, not one time, had a non profit come to us and ask this question: What is the smallest form you have with the most capabilities that adapts most seamlessly to donor behavior?
Speaker 1:Never. Instead, the question is always how to add more. More fields, more steps, more complexity, and it's usually to accommodate some legacy internal process.
Speaker 2:We have to change that conversation. I mean, final takeaway here has to be this. We have got to switch from a mindset of judgmental data capture to one of curious donor service.
Speaker 1:Our technology must adapt to the donor's neurological need for simplicity, not the other way around.
Speaker 2:That's the curiosity imperative in action.
Speaker 1:We're not just managing their credit card information, we're managing their cognitive energy.
Speaker 2:Yes. We really recommend that you start thinking about your next form redesign, not as a graphic design project, but as a neurological and behavioral challenge. You're managing the flow of emotional energy.
Speaker 1:So here's a provocative thought for you take with you to mull over as you look at your own fundraising process. If you are currently locked in debates about fonts and button colors and images
Speaker 2:The cosmetics.
Speaker 1:The cosmetics, while at the same time you require a user to click next two, three, four times to finalize their gift, you are essentially just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.
Speaker 2:So ask yourself this, what is the one single piece of information you must gather for the transaction to be valid and what can absolutely positively wait until that donor is already a secure, satisfied, and confirmed supporter. Think about where that friction is costing you generosity.
Speaker 1:Thank you for joining us for this edition of the Click and Pledges Fundraising Command Center Podcast.